Rankable Ep.9 – How to Approach Content Strategy: Agency Edition

Welcome to episode 9 of iPullRank’s Rankable podcast, where we discuss various hot topics in the digital marketing industry.

In this episode, we are joined by Jordan Leschinsky, iPullRank’s very own Manager of Content Strategy. 

The discussion revolved around the topic, “How to Approach Content Strategy.” Jordan and Jarrett were able to explain the essence of what good content is and how to utilize your content to create a holistic strategy to build upon and benefit your business. And how agencies should guide their clients to approach content the right way in order for different content to perform and be effective.

If content strategy and the meaning of good content is something that interests you, be sure to tune in and see what Jordan has to say in this episode of Rankable.

Video Transcription

Jarrett Thomas:

Well, I appreciate everybody joining today. I’m Jarrett Thomas, Senior Account Executive at iPullRank, I’m joined by the lovely Jordan Lechinsky, our Manager of Content Strategy, J, how are you? Thank you for joining me.

Jordan Leschinsky:

So excited. I have been watching all of these. I’ve been dying to be a part of it, so I’m very excited to be here.

Jarrett Thomas:

Appreciate it. I’m happy to have you here and thank you for everybody attending at home. And anybody who’s going to be watching on the replay. We really appreciate your continued support, but today we have a really good topic today. We wanted to really talk about, you know, how to approach content strategy agency edition wise. And I wanted to start with some statistics. So I did some research that was conducted. And then it said in terms of investment for content strategy, that B2B brands, 70% of the B2B brands are going to be investing more money into the content strategy this year. 

So what we wanted to do with this kind of talk about, before you even make that investment, what are some of the things you should be looking to or looking for when you’re planning your content strategy, right? What is good content, what you should be looking for? How do you boost your engagement and ultimately, how do you drive leads. How do you increase your sales and conversion? So we have the lovely Jordan here, and I love to start off with the first question, right? It’s a simple one, but we’re gonna start that at the high level. What is good content, and what is a content strategy, let’s just start off there?

Jordan Leschinsky:

Yeah. I mean, I think even go further back, what is content? And people use that word for anything, but I can tell you right now that content is not marketing assets. It is not the promise you make. It’s not your unique selling point. It’s not where your brand stands. Content is a conversation you have with customers and consumers. And I think that’s the one piece of it that a lot of people miss out on, a lot of people don’t think about. 

And content strategy is that intent behind it, your goals, your objectives, and it already determines what content you put out there, because content can be broad. It can be anything, it can be a video, it can be an article. It can be an ebook. It can be a display ad, but the strategy behind it is really what’ll determine what you get out of the content.

Jarrett Thomas:

Yeah, absolutely. I think you hit the nail on the head, right? Because content is all around. It could be anything that you think of. It could be a life experience or story. It could be an ad, it could be anything, but it doesn’t necessarily make it good, right? And I believe I posted something a couple of weeks back. And all the brands listening, I think the biggest thing, or the challenge I see brands doing is that they create content for themselves and not necessarily the customer. And I think we’ve all seen that, right? You go to a website, you’re looking to buy something. It leads you down a rabbit hole of all these different things and really what you wanted was a flashlight or something.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Totally, so what of it, like, that’s great that you’re amazing. You’re fantastic. And your service is better than anyone else’s but why should I care?

Jarrett Thomas:

Right. And even now the COVID message, right? So now with the flashlight, now I know what you’re doing for COVID, that is not effective content. Does it work? In some cases? It depends. And I think it goes back to you guys or brands, understanding who their customer is, who the audience typically are and what do they expect from the brand. Okay.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Exactly, exactly. Because that kind of content you’re describing can be right for you, but you first have to figure that out, you know? Is it right for you? Is it right for your audience? Is it right for your goals?

Jarrett Thomas:

Exactly. So as a content strategist, how do you figure that out? I’m curious, like, what are some of the things that you would look at? You know, as a brand, you put out some new content it’s not really performing to your internal KPIs. What are some of the things that you look at and pivot to.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Honestly, just thought at the beginning, I think a lot of people do exactly what you said now, a competitor’s thing, videos, I should do videos. We have to do videos. How can we do videos when, and I think it’s just important whether you’ve done them or we were just thinking about it just to start from the beginning, like, who are we talking to? Who do we want to be talking to? Who do we not want to be talking to, about what, you know, it’s really got to start with the audience first. Cause like you said, it’s not about me, the brand it’s about my customers.

And then from there you can move on to your goals and objectives. Like what do I actually want to achieve with this content? Because the beauty of it is you can do anything, it’s so creative, it’s so much fun. But if you want to generate traffic, is it a video on YouTube going to do that? Is that what’s gonna meet your goal? So just make sure that those two things aligned, because you can kind of get caught up in that excitement of doing something new, creating something amazing. But if it’s not going to meet your goals, you’re going to waste that money.

Jarrett Thomas:

Exactly. Especially if it’s your baby. I know when it’s your ideas, your baby and you want to bring it to life, but sometimes you’re going to have to pivot. And I think something that you said that is really important just now, it’s like the understanding, the audience, understanding how they consume content. Right? I think that’s even something that’s even just as important. If you know, content is gonna perform, it has to look and feel a certain way on LinkedIn, as opposed to Instagram, as opposed to Twitter and any other channel that you may be using. So understanding your audience and also understanding your target or understanding what they’re looking to do, what they expect of you, where are they. Meet them where they like to consume.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Totally. And don’t assume just because you like it, someone else will. And don’t assume that they’ll continue liking it tomorrow. That stuff changes all the time. So you start at the beginning, but all the way through the strategy, all the way through your promotion, all the way through everything you have to assume, you know nothing. You have to start from the beginning every time because just because everyone’s loving tech talk right now doesn’t mean they will tomorrow. So, you know, don’t make those assumptions and just, you know, carry on with that without stopping to analyze.

Jarrett Thomas:

That’s so true. And we actually have a good question, which is actually a good segue from an attendee. He said, is promoting content becoming more important than content quality?

Jordan Leschinsky:

I think it is. I don’t think it should be. You know, it’s both ways you can, you can promote as much as you want out of it and you can have all the budget in the world, but if it’s bad all you’re going to get it as a really high bounce rate, you know, so the social media guy will say, look at my cost of clicks and impressions, click through rate. I have driven this much traffic to your website, but for those bounces are going, and if you’re not actually selling the product you want to sell, what’s the point. So content has to be good first, but at the same time, you do need to promote it because a lot of people create it and wait, and then nothing happens. You have to let people know.

Jarrett Thomas:

For sure, for sure. I think similar, I think they need to be intertwined. I think they need to have the same amount of focus, right? Because it kind of goes with what she said, right? You promote content, but the content is bad. What does that mean? You’re not going to get the outcome you want.

Jordan Leschinsky:

That’s part of content strategy. That’s not, it’s a marketing strategy and content strategy aren’t separate things.

Jarrett Thomas:

Alright, definitely agree, same ways that sales and marketing should be intertwined. The same conversation marketing shouldn’t be in three rows down from sales and I don’t know what’s going on and vice versa. So just think of it from that aspect, right? Like how you have this quality content you definitely have to put in time and effort through distribution channels, which goes back to your audience and knowing where they’re consuming the content and then more so what do you want your audience to get out of that piece of content? That’s the main goal. So what do you want, do you want to educate, do you want to inform? Do you want to entertain and what will that lead them to?

Jordan Leschinsky:

Why am I here, you know all this.

Jarrett Thomas:

Yeah. Don’t make me blush. I don’t want to do that now. But, another question that we have for you, what kind of goes back like, so what do you consider to be good content? So now that we’re talking about it, like, what is something that catches your eye and what do you expect out of good content?

Jordan Leschinsky:

I think for me personally, and it’s different for everyone, but it is something that is not obviously trying to get something out of me. Cause I think as soon as that’s the case, it’s marketing, and people are ad blockers, you know, we’ve been sold everything we can to avoid it. But you know, from the first three words of anything you’ve read, whether it’s a post or it’s an ad, even when we’re not trying to lie to you. 

And I think that’s the thing that people get wrong with content a lot of the time is that the focus first is that sale or the assumption that we need you to get. We need you to do something after reading this, we’ve given you this great content. Now we expect something back and I think those expectations should be taken away. And the thing is, you’re probably going to need me to read more pieces of content to convert if that’s your approach. 

But I think the differences I’ve now read five or six pieces. I now trust you. And I believe you understand who I am. We speak the same language. Even if I was originally a consumer of product A or competitor A, you’re competitor B, you relate to me so well, you think about the things I think of you have the same opinions and beliefs. Maybe I’m a person B you know, maybe I always thought I drove that kind of car, but maybe I’m all of this kind of car driver, you know? So that relationship you can build in that conversation you can have, can do a lot to convert the long term as opposed to just getting a quick sale right now. 

Jarrett Thomas:

Absolutely. Nobody wants to be sold. They want to be told, right? They want to be joined in the conversation. Nobody wants that thing. You know, people are smart enough to get this now, even the casual consumer. We know when you want to sell, even if you fill out a form or something like you’re right here comes the sales. There’s like, ugh, you know what I mean? It is what it is. It’s even hard saying it as a salesperson, but authenticity sells. Be honest with what you want from your customer. Right? I want you to read it and I want you to get your education on this particular product that I’m offering, because I think it can bring value with this brand.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Yeah. And I think a lot of people go, what would I write as a marketer? What would I do as a copywriter, as a brand strategist, as opposed to like, what would I click on as a consumer? Because you would write a really horrible, hard sell piece of copy. And two seconds later, read it from someone else and go, this is nonsense. It’s just changing your mind frame from a seller to a buyer.

Jarrett Thomas:

Yeah. Actually I have a question for you. As a content strategist, what is the most important skill you think somebody in your role should have?

Jordan Leschinsky:

Well, I think it’s really important to consider everything, like speak to people, build up your knowledge base because content strategy, as we’ve been saying is not just, I know how to write the articles or really good at emails or social media. It’s about everything. Content strategy can and should encompass every single platform and channel and audience member and effort. 

It’s really three 60 degrees. So it’s based to understand or do what you can to speak to designers, speak to brands, speak to customers, speak to analysts, understand what impacts everything so that your strategy doesn’t leave anything out. You know, you’re really really focused on articles, but you’re above the line agency or team is saying something completely different, and undermining what you’re trying to do. So, it really does need to involve everyone. And the best thing as a content strategist is to know what everyone’s doing so that you can align your strategy to goals.

Jarrett Thomas:

So true. I think it’s something that’s overlooked from a lot of brands too, when it comes to content strategy, they should be listening to sales calls. I don’t hear too many people talk about it, right? Like it’s very simple to invest in a tool like gong or even just recording his own calls and things like that. But listen to what your customers are saying on the phone and what they expect, you know, how did they come in the door? You know, what led them, there was this specific piece of content that led them in the door. And if so, replicate that across different segments.

Jordan Leschinsky:

I think as a salesperson as well, it’s great to just bring in a content person. Because we already speak that language. So you’re busy telling the client, you should buy this, buy this. And they’re thinking he just wants me to buy that. And then you have the content strategist saying, you should buy that. That’s great. Here’s also six other things you could buy that are different to that. You know, instead of buying that one thing, here are three things you should buy the cost the same. You know, just to show that that expertise is there. I’m concerned about your wellbeing, not about the sale, you know, and that’s what content is.

Jarrett Thomas:

I think that’s a great analogy. Absolutely. Like it’s the same thing with sales, right? I can’t go on a first call discovery call and I’m sending you a large presentation with a proposal right afterwards, I need to know your business more, there’s no way I’m gonna know your business enough where we’re signing paperwork and at the first 30 minutes. So, you know, it’s the same approach guy. So, you know, definitely take that into account when you guys are thinking content strategy. Oh, we also have another, another question. A lot of chatter about repurposing and recycling old content, what do you guys say?

Jordan Leschinsky:

Oh yeah, you have to do that. Content is forever. Yeah. You need to fix the content you have. And that’s why strategy is important because you know, very oftentimes you’ll have been doing content for a long time. And then you’ll only start thinking about the strategy a few years in and it’s not net new, right? It’s not just like, what are we doing ahead? Cause you have to go backwards. You have to fix what’s wrong. You have to delete what’s wrong. You have to update and everything new you create. 

You have to have a timeline for it as well because what’s relevant now is not relevant tomorrow. Like people, we change, our opinions change, our feelings change, you know, promise changes. So you’ve gotta be able to rework all content and you need to optimize it because like we were saying earlier, just cause it’s working out, doesn’t mean it’s working tomorrow, you know, content evolves. It’s not a forever thing.

Jarrett Thomas:

Yeah. And just think of it from this perspective too. Like why not? If you put that investment in, right? Why wouldn’t you want one piece of content to end up, to end up turning into eight different deliverables, right? You have one piece, you break it down into a bite sized clip. You throw it on LinkedIn. You take the large, long form static content you have, you throw that on your blog and your website. You take another clip, you throw it on Twitter. You know, there’s so many different things. You can do a two minute video about the content. So now you have something for you to write about.

So if you guys haven’t heard of him, Ross Simmonds talks about this extensively, he actually had a presentation on this on MozCon. Personally from my brand, I need to do it more like, I like to create content on LinkedIn constantly. And I need to go back to my content from, you know, six months ago and what I was talking about there really got some traction. And how can I just put that into two sentences? Three sentences maybe, for people who I’m connected with now that may have not seen it. So all a piece of content is good. It’s just, you know, you should be getting the most out of it. And stretching it out so you can maximize your return.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Yeah. And I mean, you’re closest to your content. You’ve read it a million times. You’re probably sick of it. But the new audiences, new people haven’t heard it, all the audiences probably didn’t see it because they weren’t on Twitter that day. You know? So it’s important to, to relook and reusing is not a sin. It’s fine.

Jarrett Thomas:

Yup. And I know I have a question for you Jordan, cause that’s something I always wondered. Right? So say we get a new client and you know, they’re going to focus on a content plan, a content strategy. But they have this great idea. They say, Hey, we want to do content in this way. But you know, as a content strategy, this may not be the right idea for their specific audience. How do you sway them to try and test new ideas?

Jordan Leschinsky:

Well, I think the easiest way is just with numbers and with data, right? Because a lot of people don’t think about measurement. They don’t think about how they’re going to prove content actually works. You know, like you said, the client has this great idea. They want to do it because they’ve always wanted to do it or a competitor is doing it. Yeah. But how do you prove that that data didn’t work? You know, how do you prove how much of it worked? 

So I think it always comes back to the number. It goes back to the ROI, goes back to the KPIs and how you’re going to measure it. So if you can say like, you know, you could do this, this is what we could realistically measure with that. And then all you could do these 16 things. This is what we could realistically measure. This meets your goal. And I think a lot of clients forget about goals. It’s such a silly thing, but you know, you can sometimes spot in the middle, but like asking yourself, why are we doing this?

Why do I want to do this? Do I want to do it because I really love the idea. Do I want to do it because I want to increase sales, increase traffic, increase loyalty, you know, starting with that. Why, really makes you rethink the what.

Jarrett Thomas:

Absolutely. Well, I’m curious too, like what data would you look at? So for that particular example, right? He brings it to you and like you said, you want to do the research and you want to have facts and analysis to prove and back your theories, what would you look at first? Or what are some of those things that, you know, people in the audience could take home with them and possibly look at content differently?

Jordan Leschinsky:

Yeah. I mean, I think that it could be anything, but you know, for example, a client wants to do a video series because you know, they want to do a YouTube video series, you know, over 12 weeks. It’s just, they’ve decided they want to do it. Because their competitors are doing it. So then it starts with, okay, what do you actually want to achieve? What do you want this investment you’re making to result?

And if they say, well, obviously I want to upsell my shoes online. Okay, that’s it. How are you going to prove that with this? Are you going to be featuring your shoes? Are you going to be linking to your shoes in the videos? Are you going to be, um, featuring a certain amount of shoes and then linking to those and then measuring how many people clicked through, you know, so it all depends on the what, and then you can look at the measurement.

Cause then what we would say is instead, what if we did an email series on how to clean your sneakers, people sign up to that. And then what you do is you promote three sneakers in each email series. It’s 12 weeks, it’s a quarter or less of the price of your video series, much, much less. And we can show that we’re going to send this many, we get this many open rates, we get this many click throughs. We can AB test our different emails, you know?

So just, you know, that’s the great thing about digital, you can achieve one goal in 60 different ways. It’s so great. But like, which is best for your audience, which is the best your brand, which is best for your goal. You know, that requires a lot of brainstorming and I think it’s worth questioning everything. And if we question it and at the end of the day, video is definitely the best way to go. At least we’ve asked the questions.

Jarrett Thomas:

Absolutely, and I think another thing they should be looking at it too, is like, when you look at content, especially when we were talking about the sneaker example. There’s going to be one thing that your customers want to know. How does it differ from the other sneakers that I get? So how do you differ from Nike Adidas, Reebok and some of those major retailers, right? 

And there’s a way to do this without being the normal sales content. You know, I think people at least content strategist, at least for brands, I don’t know if there’s limitations to what they do, but I don’t see a ton of creativity and a lot of specific niche verticals that the place you should be having your creativity, like there’s things that you could be doing to make it fun. Like what are some of the myths about sneaker wearing?

And then you can add in some of your product knowledge and some of your features in your shoe and that people wouldn’t have known, and it’s in an engaging format. And then the best part about it, you actually capture that data and then you can segment your audience, which goes back to the audience, you know, personification, you know, understanding who they are. 

So you don’t have to be in a box. You have to do a long form piece of static content. I would actually recommend staying away from static things. Interactive. You know, people have attention spans that are like this, right? If you don’t catch my attention right now, I don’t care about your shoe. If it’s your first look, I don’t care. So how do you grab it? Make it a quiz, make it an assessment, test. Something that catches my eye. That’s visually appealing. And then you get them and you collect that data.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Yeah. Because it is like what we were saying at the start. Content is a conversation. It’s not a blanket statement,

Jarrett Thomas:

So true. Yup. Yup. And then any other, I know we’re coming up to the five minute mark. I have at least a couple of questions, but are there any questions from the crowd? I would love to hear from you guys.

Jordan Leschinsky:

I think this is a Jarrett question.

Jarrett Thomas:

Great. So can you discuss the pitfalls of establishing a presence and no real engagement on LinkedIn? What is one way to turn around your activity? So as far as like real engagement on LinkedIn, I think like it depends, people look at it differently. Like the reason why I got on LinkedIn, as you guys know, like I want to increase my personal brand and I want it to kind of break down the sales barrier and not just be, Oh, the sales guy that’s in your DM and just more of a, Hey that’s Jarrett. I know him. I know his story. He’s cool. He’s a father of two. And how do we create a conversation where we can actually lead to some opportunities?

So when I first started, I was thinking about, you know, well I need a hundred thousand likes on every piece of content, to be honest with you, the ones that have five, 10, 15, 20 likes, those are my favorites because then I could work that list better. I could have an intimate conversation with everybody who likes my content. And my main thing is even if it’s not a sale from that person, how can you help champion me? How can I help you? 

If you have something about marketing, you know, I have people calling me after hours. We have conversations next day, I’ll see a post like, Hey, Jarrett helped me. And that’s so cool. You know what I mean? That makes me feel good. And I feel like all of those different activities, what eventually lead to that sale. So my main thing is how do I establish myself as a good person? And then on top of the marketing knowledge and things that I was sharing content tips and things like that. So one way to turn it around, be authentic. That’s it. It’s the only way to be. 

You know, just be yourself. There’s been time, I shared a video of a dude singing D block outside in the rain and it got like 30 likes, didn’t have anything to do with anything. I do know, but it basically, I flipped it around and said, Hey, it’s a rainy day on a Wednesday. But this guy is outside in the rain putting smiles on faces. So how, how bad can it be? And then people would change their perspective on it. And then it starts a conversation about something else. Hey Jarrett, how’s the kids. And next thing you know, we have a call on Tuesday at four o’clock. You know what I mean? So, you know, those are just some things.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Yeah. I think like you say that, don’t think of what Jarrett would say. Don’t think of what a brand would say. Don’t think of what a LinkedIn post would look like. Like what would you actually say, well, what are you thinking? Be honest. It’s that? You know, people like you were saying earlier, people can sniff out that template, that marketing lingo, like as soon as, as soon as you start your post with what everyone else is starting with, they’ve skipped over it. They’ve carried on scrolling. So just like start a conversation, say something real, people will stop. People will engage.

Jarrett Thomas:

Absolutely. The realest things are the ones that fly. Like the one time I put into it, I’m like, Oh, this is going to fly. I’ve got marketing tips. I got bullet points. I got emojis. It’s about to go down. And then soon I press send, 2 likes, 30 views. I’m like, Aw, yeah.

Jordan Leschinsky:

And you spend more time on that one post that any of the others.

Jarrett Thomas:

Exactly. And then sometimes when I’m just in a flow one day and I’m like, something happened on a call, I’m just letting me type, I’ve got three typos in that hing. It’s got a hundred likes. So don’t put so much emphasis on it. Just have fun with it. If I don’t get likes and engagement, I’m laughing.

Jordan Leschinsky:

You have to test to learn. Right? When we do this for content all the time, you have to make mistakes. You have to try different things and you’ll learn it. And you’ll create a template of how you need to speak to people. The content you need to write, like that will come, but you’ve got to try different things. You’ve got to see the results. You’ve got to see what people engage with and what they don’t. And you know, you’ll learn from yourself and you’ll learn from the data.

Jarrett Thomas:

So true. We actually have one, let me plug in next week’s episode, but next week, we’re going to have a LinkedIn all-star one with Sam Downs and David Stanton. And then we’re gonna have some more LinkedIn top creators. If you have anybody that you want us to talk to love to have you on that, let’s get it going. All right. But we’re going to end off with one last final question. I thought this was a really good one for us to kind of tackle before we end off, is content strategy a luxury or unnecessarily expensive process? Or is it something you can’t afford not to. 

Jordan Leschinsky:

It’s definitely that second one. I mean, content is expensive. No matter what you do, content costs money. It costs time, costs effort. If you don’t put strategy behind it, you’re going to lose the investment. If you put strategy behind it, that investment is going to grow and grow and grow and you’ll see the returns. So you can’t afford not to, otherwise, you might as well just not do any content and you know, pray.

Jarrett Thomas:

Yeah. You fail to plan, you plan to fail. You know, you have to, it is a necessity right now because all your competitors are doing it. You know, I think people or brands get kind of discouraged because they’re like, everybody’s doing content and what would make them come to mind? But at the same time, what makes you think that you can’t do better than the people that already do, right? Mike said something last week that went crazy on Twitter. He said, if you do that, if you do the same things as everyone else, you’re going to get the same results as everyone else. And that’s true.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Yeah. And for brands that can compete on price and locations and quality and all those extra things that really big brands can do, you can compete with content. You really can be totally different.

Jarrett Thomas:

You can change your whole brand sentiment with a good piece of content. So it’s something that you need to be focused on, but just focus on what helps your brand. What do you want your brand to look like? What do you want to feel like, are you a fun company or you’re a serious company? Um, what is your product? If you guys are talking about cloud computing, why not make it fun? Right? Why not make it in a digestible format instead of doing a 20 page white paper with a bunch of lingo that only you would know. That’s not going to be helpful.

So I definitely come before coming here, like, you know, the way that we actually do our content strategy, I’ve never seen anybody do it like this. I think we all want the strongest teams from a content and technical SEO perspective. So I know I’ve upleveled my game since being here. So I appreciate the whole team, Jordan, you know, me and you work closely together. There’s a lot of opportunities that, you know, I’m glad to have you a part of and you get the people, you know, get customers, you know, brain spinning and getting them thinking about new ideas. I appreciate you a ton. Glad you’re here and joining us today.

Jordan Leschinsky:

Thanks, it’s really nice to join you as well, with the LinkedIn King.

Jarrett Thomas:

Yeah. I’m trying to get there. I’m trying to get, Mike is actually killing me on LinkedIn right now because I have to join forces or something. I don’t know. I’m going to have to take my talents to Twitter. And then do a session like that soon. But thank you everybody. If there’s no other final questions, I just want to say thank you for joining episode 9 of Rankable. We really appreciate it. We could not do this without your continued support. Next week, we will have LinkedIn All-Stars also check off for some content that will be on the blog. If you haven’t to make sure you check out runtime, which is our movie that we did at MozCon. Um, Mike killed it. If you’re a developer, coder, or about technical expertise. This is something that you must see. It’s one of the most creative things I’ve seen. So thank you everybody for joining. We’ll see you next week. Feel free to DM us, LinkedIn, connect with us and I’ll see you soon guys. 

Jordan Leschinsky:

Thanks so much, Jarrett. Bye!